Ouch, sorry, my earlier posting on the tenure track position is messed up. I haven’t had time to fix it. So, please bear with me. Apology.
Tenure for life? Life for tenure position?
â€Vivat academia! Vivat professores!â€
Ah ya â€¦ tenure position, a dream of every scientist. Thanks for the clear overview, teh
Based on my husbandâ€™s experience *heâ€™s in natural science*, most post doc positions in Europe offer salaries too low to believe. In the US, national labs offer better packages, and itâ€™s a good way to get some experiences and recognitions *with decent incomes* in the US before later on returning to Europe *amin*.
About getting the tenure track, at the beginning I thought the selection is a fair game over here, but recently I learned that nepotistic practices in the US can be similar to those of our beloved country.
Just a humble overview from a wife of an assistant researcher.
mer: i think your view is a valid one. also among assistant/associate/full professors, salaries in Europe are much lower. about nepotism â€” I think it exists everywhere. so far, though, in US academia everything is more or less much fairer and more transparent than most places.
I was a bit dizzy reading this one-paragraph posting.
Yeah, I notice that a tenure job is the ultimate position for most profs. Iâ€™m personally happy with an adjunct position as it gives me more room to â€œmaneuverâ€ in other settings. It really depends on what one really aims for, I guess. If one feels that he or she is â€œdestinedâ€ to be a full-time academic, so be it. And if one doesnâ€™t get that â€œsexyâ€ tenure position, there are still many ways out there to actualize oneâ€™s self.
IMHO, it is important to keep a balanced life and to cultivate all intelligences we possess, not merely the intellectual part. Youâ€™re doing well, Mer, so Iâ€™m sure you know that youâ€™re going to be OK.
mer: thanks. yes adjunct position is good and needed â€” for non full-time academia. in architecture, for example, half of the faculty usually are adjunct, because architecture education needs practitioners who are in industrial/business/non-academic world to share their knowledge to architecture students. about balanced life? of course in everything you do, whatever field â€” academic or not â€” itâ€™s always important. who can say no?.
phewâ€¦just found out how complicated the system isâ€¦tapi tenang teh, kalo emang jalannya mah..mau seketat apa persaingan juga, pasti bisa =)
mer: thanks. while i donâ€™t really believe in destiny, in essence agree with you that if we really want and really try, then weâ€™ll get it
I think the biggest hurdle in Europe is that theyâ€™re trying to find locals to fill academic positions, while most PhD students currently come from Eastern or 3rd world countries. A position can be empty for 5 years simply because they canâ€™t find a decent local, while the postdocs are staring helplessly and not being considered at all.
In Europe itâ€™s not really about may the best man win. A brilliant, non local PhD can be employed for 5 miserable years as a postdoc. I wonâ€™t say the pressure is less, assistant professors in Holland gets 5 year contract, after that theyâ€™ll review whether you can get the permanent one.
Then, you can be stucked as an associate professor for the rest of your life since in many cases there can only be one full professor as a chair.
Formal vacation days may be a lot more in Europe (donâ€™t academic professor have that 3-month summer vacation by themselves in US ?), but currently in engineering you have to show that you have strong external funding, or theyâ€™ll just close down the group. I have seen several research groups closed down by the university board and how the chairs in their 50s have to look for a new job. I think academia is always somewhat insecure than company job, but the beauty of it is the freedom to pursue what you believe. I believe youâ€™ll get the tenure Mer!
mer: youâ€™re so right. â€œlocalsâ€ first rule, one full professor rule, and other rules in European system are very frustrating. about vacation, unlike European profs, US professors are paid only for 9 months. weâ€™re not paid in summer except if we teach on summer semester. so on the paper, we donâ€™t have to do anything for 3 months. but in reality, no profs (not even one!) here who can really have long holiday (all of my Dutch profs have long holiday all the time in summer!) because thereâ€™re duties and work and research and commitments even on summer. but yes, this is my dream job, i love this and iâ€™ll stick with this world! thanks for your support, Patsy.
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